(global) “Con las plataformas streaming, los espectadores están acostumbrados a ver series de cualquier lado”, entrevista a los hermanos Cabezudo (‘La Zona’)

Hablar con los hermanos Cabezudo es apurar un cóctel de entusiasmo en la barra de bar de la vida. Puede que su serie cuente cosas bien chungas, como una Asturias postnuclear donde tanto puede ser uno devorado por un lobo como por un caníbal, pero los hacedores de ‘La Zona’, serie televisiva con el sello de Movistar+, están lejos de responder al tópico del artista torturado.

O eso o disimulan muy bien. A ráfagas de conversación superpuestas, atropelladas, trepidantes, en las que cupo de todo, de David Fincher, a Chernóbil y Fukushima o el polémico ‘Episodio VIII’ de Star Wars, Xataka se adentró en ‘La Zona’, con el ojo en el dosímetro y de la mano de sus papás. Vivimos para contarlo.

Venga, vamos a empezar por una que probablemente no me vais a responder. ¿Es Arcan_hell, el prota del lado transmedia de ‘La Zona’, Fede?

Alberto Sánchez Cabezudo y Jorge Sánchez Cabezudo. [Risas].

JC. Eeeeeehhhh. Hombre, creo que no.

Entonces, me la habéis respondido. No lo es.

AC. Hombre, no sé. Si hacemos la segunda temporada, todavía tenemos muchos caminos que explorar. Así que está todo abierto ahí.

Se confirma con ‘La Zona’, como pasó con ‘El ministerio del tiempo’, ¿que en España ya se pueden hacer series un poquito más friquis?

AC. Yo creo que sí. Con las plataformas streaming, los espectadores están acostumbrados a ver series de cualquier lado; es un público mucho más global.

JC. Y esa es la apuesta. La apuesta de Movistar es: “Nosotros no vamos a competir en una hora determinada con otra cadena en concreto que también tiene una serie española, sino que vamos a un catálogo en el que la gente tenga que decidir entre ‘La Zona’ y ‘Mindhunters’”. Al final tenemos que dar lo mejor de nosotros porque estamos compitiendo con lo global. Esa es la apuesta, supongo que es también la apuesta de ‘El ministerio del tiempo’, y creo que es en general la apuesta de la ficción. Esto ya no hay quien lo pare.

¿Y cómo se sube uno al ring contra David Fincher?

AC Y JC. [Risas].

AC. ¿Te digo una cosa? Sin pensarlo.

JC. Exacto, exacto. No lo piensas. Tú haces lo que sabes hacer lo mejor que sabes hacerlo con todo el amor…

AC. La ilusión, la pasión…

JC. Toda la intensidad del mundo. Y ya está… Porque además, te digo, no puedes hacer otra cosa [risas].

¿Es verdad que parasteis la producción de esta serie por la tragedia de Fukushima, allá por 2011?

AC. Sí. No teníamos cerrada la serie, pero llevábamos tiempo dándole vueltas y teníamos ya una propuesta para mover por alguna cadena.

JC. También es cierto que en ese momento no estaba Movistar+.

AC. Y entonces uno de nuestros socios, Koldo, nos llama y nos dice: “Oye, ¿habéis visto lo que están echando en la tele?”. Cuando vimos toda la tragedia, las víctimas, nos dio muchísimo pudor. Era un proyecto que tenía que guardarse en un cajón. Si lo retomamos fue porque, años después, al bajar el ruido mediático y no tener información, nos pusimos a bucear y nos interesó que dos, tres años después de Fukushima había muchas cosas que seguían siendo un misterio. Y esto fue el germen de toda la trama de ‘La Zona’.

“Nos pusimos a bucear y nos interesó que dos, tres años después de Fukushima había muchas cosas que seguían siendo un misterio. Y esto fue el germen de toda la trama de ‘La Zona'”
Hablemos un poco a nivel estético. Uno de los temas que tocáis es la naturaleza contaminada, indómita y salvaje pero a la vez deformada. ¿Las imágenes de Fukushima o Chernóbil os influyeron en algo para cómo transformasteis Asturias?

JC. Total. Totalmente.

AC. Gran parte del trabajo de guion no fue la trama y los personajes, fue el previo de documentación muy amplio. El proyecto arrancó antes de Fukushima. Habíamos devorado documentales en torno a Chernóbil, pero después de lo sucedido en Fukushima, sobre todo lo relacionado con la central y las imágenes de lo contemporáneo abandonado nos influyó muchísimo.

¿Viajasteis a la zona cero de alguno de los dos desastres?

AC. No. Lo estuvimos hablando ayer. ¡Somos muy caguetas!

AC y JC. [Risas].

JC. Somos muy como Verne, por decirlo de alguna manera. Somos viajeros de salón. Nos documentamos mucho y no entendemos cómo se podía hacer nada en el mundo sin Internet antes.

AC. Ayer estuvimos con Raquel Montón de Greenpeace, que nos ayudó un montón con la documentación de Fukushima, y le preguntamos. Oye…

JC. …para viajar…

AC. …tú cómo lo ves?

JC y AC. [Risas].

¿Y cómo lo veía?

AC. Igual nos animamos, igual nos animamos.

JC. Vamos a intentarlo. Es verdad que nosotros hemos visitado centrales nucleares pero sin decir quiénes somos ni lo que íbamos a hacer. Visitas guiadas, que hay muchas. A partir de ahora, pues no lo sé… No somos los mejores amigos del lobby nuclear, también te digo. Pero bueno, sí nos interesa abundar en todo eso y para una segunda temporada estamos recabando información. Hay temas, como lo de la carcasa de plomo, que están salidos directamente de allí, de Fukushima.

Supongo que le estáis pidiendo la segunda temporada a los Reyes y Papa Noel a la vez.

JC y AC. [Risas].

¿Vais a mantener esta especie de caja de bombones de géneros, que si un pelín de policiaco, que si algo de fantástico, que si mucho de costumbrismo, en la segunda? Sobre todo esa naturaleza modificada, mutante, y los protagonistas moviéndose por ella con trajes hazmat.

JC. Sí.

AC. Sí, sí. Yo creo que todo ese universo es un poco la seña. ‘La Zona’ necesita la zona contaminada, la naturaleza contaminada. La parte visual es una parte poderosa de la serie.

JC. Además, creo que los que nos han seguido una temporada ya nos han cogido el punto. No jugamos con el fantástico de esa manera, pero si jugamos con todo lo que roza los géneros yendo siempre a un punto hiperrealista de las cosas. El capítulo siete nos define mucho y retoma un poco la línea que teníamos en ‘Crematorio’.

Pero todo lo que viene antes del siete es verdad que toca muchos géneros que nos apasionan y en los que nunca acabamos de entrar del todo, como el fantástico. Pero siempre hay algo de misterio, elementos de lo no comprensible, que lo no comprensible no tiene por qué ser fantástico, pero sí es inquietante. Volveremos a tratar estos géneros y los volveremos a tratar un poco de la misma manera. Bueno, a ver dónde acabamos porque también te digo que nos dejamos llevar bastante por la escritura.

A la hora de visualizar a los personajes, ¿cuáles teníais en la cabeza con rostro y voz y cuáles fueron sorpresas de casting?

AC. Eduard estuvo muy desde el principio en nuestra imagen como Héctor.

JC. A partir del cuatro ya escribíamos para él, por decirlo así, porque se incorporó cuando ya llevábamos cuatro capítulos escritos.

AC. Y en general, la verdad, es que la carta de reyes magos de actores que hicimos…

JC. ¡Toda, toda!

AC. Nos lo trajeron todo. Zahera, yo creo que la ha dado…

JC. Un plus.

AC. Una vida a ese personaje que nos ha sorprendido. Pero bueno, todos. Manolo Solo también. Álvaro Cervantes. Todos han sabido apoderarse de sus personajes y darles un plus.

JC. Por ejemplo, Álvaro Cervantes [Martín] estaba pensado para alguien un poquito mayor y sin embargo Álvaro tiene una mirada muy, muy potente. Le ha dado un peso al personaje que nos ha venido muy bien.

 

Hay una cosa clave en lo que venimos hablando. El cambio de modelo de producción. Me interesa mucho desde el punto de vista del creador qué aporta este modelo. En negativo me quedó claro, que os subís al ring con David Fincher.

AC y JC. [Risas].

Pero, ¿en positivo?

JC. Es que lo cambia todo. La nuestra ha sido un poco el modelo híbrido. Se ha emitido capítulo a capítulo semanalmente y ahora tiene una especie de segunda vida para poder verla del tirón. La clave es que esto está un poco haciéndose. En nuestro caso, ha sido una exploración de fronteras brutal. Hemos llevado todo a los límites que nos dejaron. Ha sido un poco como: “¿Nos dejáis hacer? Pues vamos a hacer”. Es que no sé, 160 localizaciones, nos hemos arriesgado muchísimo a narrar sin diálogo, es una serie que cuenta muchísimo visualmente y que procura explicar poco.

“Ha sido una exploración de fronteras brutal. Hemos llevado todo a los límites que nos dejaron. Ha sido un poco como: ‘¿Nos dejáis hacer? Pues vamos a hacer’ ”
AC. Y luego, tanto el tamaño como el poder tener el guion acabado antes de rodar, nos permitían orientar la producción más con un esquema de cine. Poder rodar por localizaciones, no por capítulos, con lo cual hemos podido optimizar recursos para sacar el máximo de lo que teníamos.

JC. Y además hacerlo con dos unidades. Eso es otra cosa que hay que mencionar, y nos gusta mencionarlo siempre, que hay una segunda unidad, dirigida por Gonzalo López-Gallego, que se rueda un 40% de la serie.

Eso os permite ser más flexibles.

JC. ¡Claro!

AC. Jorge filma el 60% en rodaje, Gonzalo lleva la segunda unidad y yo desde fuera puedo mantener un poco la continuidad y controlar la producción. Así podemos controlar creativamente todo el proceso.

JC. Además, que un director como Gonzalo acepte llevar una especie de segunda unidad, porque es mucho más que una segunda unidad, nos permitió optimizar el presupuesto.

Me sorprendió verlo firmar como director de la segunda unidad. Es alguien que ha trabajado en Hollywood y con una larga trayectoria. Debía de creer mucho en el proyecto para apoyaros hasta ese punto.

JC. Sí, sí. Por eso siempre lo queremos mencionar porque ha sido de una generosidad enorme. Lo llamamos segunda unidad porque había que llamarlo de alguna manera. De hecho, nos repartimos las tramas…

AC. Y firma dos capítulos con Jorge.

JC. Firma dos capítulos conmigo, entre ellos el siete, que creo que es el mejor de la serie. Fue tremendamente generoso porque tuvo que asumir un peso muy grande. Y hacer cosas muy complicadas, como bajar con las canoas por el río, rodando en la central. Todo el interior del siete es suyo.

AC. Trabajar con él fue fantástico. Una compenetración y una sensibilidad… Estamos encantados.

En otros campos lleva pasando un tiempo, como en los videojuegos. Pero ahora, por primera vez, y de esto Netflix es probablemente el epítome, se puede competir en ficción audiovisual con Hollywood desde cualquier lugar del mundo. Consejos o avisos para navegantes en la ficción española para no quedarnos atrás en esta partida, porque ahora se es showrunner para el mundo.

JC. Uy, nosotros consejos todavía.

AC. [Risas].

JC. No estamos para darlos, ¿eh?

AC. Lo que sí está pasando es que desde hace tiempo hay una ficción europea, diría yo, que ha salido a contar sus historias. Y dentro de eso creo que el consejo es contar nuestras historias. Creo que desde hace diez años el nivel técnico está subiendo enormemente, desde las producciones españolas para cadenas generalistas.

El sector de pago había estado un poco parado, hasta que ha llegado Movistar para agitarlo justo cuando coincide con el desembarco de otras grandes plataformas como Netflix o HBO. Pero yo creo que en Europa, en los países nórdicos o en Italia, en la que tenemos series como ‘Gomorra’ o ‘1992’, poco a poco estamos perdiendo estos complejos. Creo que nosotros, España, somos de los últimos que nos sumamos a este carro. Pero, al mismo tiempo, nuestras series son de las que más se venden fuera. Bambú está vendiendo internacionalmente como el que más. Así que bueno, a salir a jugar.

JC. Abundando un poco en lo que dice Alberto, lo que es muy importante ver es que el recorrido que ha hecho la ficción española en lineal es increíble en 10 años. Yo he trabajado muchos años en Bambú y vinieron los italianos a comprar el formato de ‘Gran Hotel’. Visitaron el rodaje y salieron alucinados. “¿Hacéis esto con este dinero?”. Y nosotros: “Sí. Lo hacemos”. No se entiende ‘Crematorio’ o ‘La Zona’ sin esa ficción. No es que sean antagonistas, que lo uno venga a imponerse a lo otro. La una es consecuencia de la otra. Otra anécdota, hablando con gente del sector de Francia. “¿Cómo podéis hacer el doble de series que nosotros con la mitad de público”. Repito, lo uno es consecuencia de lo otro.

En España, y esto lo veo en la comunidad startup, en investigación científica, en grandes empresas y en el sector cultural, la gente se busca la vida.

JC. ¡Total! [Risas].

AC. Somos muy espabilaos. Sacamos mucho petróleo.

JC. Sacamos petróleo de dónde no lo hay. Lo mismo nos decía un jefe de eléctricos. Venía el director de foto americano y le decía: “Yo quiero esto, esto y esto”. Y le decía nuestro jefe: “Te hago lo mismo con la mitad”. Se lo hizo y el americano dijo: “Hostia, pues es verdad”. Ponía la mitad de focos y le salía lo mismo. Tenemos muy buena capacidad para eso. A veces nos falta la otra parte, el rigor. Pero también te digo que combinando las dos cosas, porque hay gente muy rigurosa y con mucho nivel, conseguimos cosas que no se consiguen fuera.

Nos lo han vuelto a decir en Cannes, a tenor de Movistar+. Los alemanes estaban flipados que una plataforma hubiera nacido en dos años. No daban crédito; creían que era imposible y que a ellos les hubiera llevado, al menos, tres veces más. Así que creo que hay que sacar pecho. Los españoles estamos siempre con el látigo para machacarnos a nosotros mismos, pero, joer, también hacemos cosas bien.

Vosotros os lo jugasteis en todos los frentes. Por ejemplo, en el transmedia. Y os lo quiero preguntar buscando una respuesta sincera. ¿Hasta qué punto compensa meterse una panzada a priori de 310 minutos de contenido adicional y paralelo, en múltiples formatos, como es ‘La Otra Zona’, antes de saber si hay una comunidad de fans que lo justifique?

JC. La verdad es que nosotros nos quedamos un poco fuera de eso porque es imposible que llegáramos a todo. Alberto y yo llevábamos desde la hoja en blanco hasta la última decisión de sonido. Esto ha sido la apuesta que ha hecho Movistar, para estar a la última en todo, y digamos que para nosotros no supuso un esfuerzo.

AC. Hombre, nosotros intentamos estar pendientes. Pero había un equipo que se encargaba de ello y nosotros hacíamos más de coachs. Les dábamos información. Pero necesitábamos un equipo independiente y con la capacidad creativa para desarrollarlo. Siempre un poco con nosotros como guía pero no podíamos asumir eso. Entre otras cosas, porque Movistar quería apostar por explorar las fronteras de eso. Es lo que dices tú. ¿Hace falta tener la comunidad antes? Bueno, creo que eso es lo que va a poder comprobar Movistar y nosotros. Quedan muchas series por aterrizar. La apuesta es un poco a medio plazo. Y es muy de agradecer el sentirse respaldado a todos los niveles.

¿Pensáis tomar algunas cosillas del lado transmedia?

AC. Nosotros estamos en contacto con ellos. Por ejemplo, en ‘Cicatrices’ habían conseguido hablar con gente de Chernóbil. Hay una relación con ello que permite una permeabilidad de información de los equipos y eso suma a favor de la serie.

¿Pero llegar al punto de coger algunos personajes, tramas o temas del transmedia y sumarlos a la serie principal?

AC. No dejamos de plantearnos nada [risas]. Nos gusta rebañar todo. Nos encanta dejar los huesos muy limpios. Primero tenemos que hablar con la cadena, pero una vez abramos la caja de Pandora, partiremos de la documentación real en primer lugar y luego recoger un poco de todo, tanto de lo que se ha explorado desde el lado transmedia, como de temas que sabemos que queremos tratar y plantear un poco el puzle.

JC. Nosotros tenemos un universo que ya está planteado y que creo que debemos aprovechar para acelerar la marcha y tirar palante, vamos.

Desde la perspectiva del tiempo, ¿cómo veis ‘Crematorio’?

AC. Yo no la he vuelto a ver [risas]. Pero bien, muy orgullosos. Yo creo que es una serie que ha ganado con el tiempo. En su momento, cuando salió con Canal+ no era una serie de máxima audiencia. Tuvo muy buenas críticas, eso sí. Con el tiempo, ha ido asentándose…

JC. Incluso ‘La Zona’ ha ayudado. Se está revisionando gracias a ella. También te digo que el momento en el que salió ‘Crematorio’ es tan diferente al actual… ‘Crematorio’ no salía a competir con Fincher; venía desde otro sitio. Pero estamos orgullusísimos de ella, por supuesto.

AC. De alguna manera creo que forma un cuerpo un poco por ‘La Zona’. Incluso con la peli que hizo Jorge, ‘La noche de los girasoles’, que tocaba también ese mundo rural. Yo creo que esas tres forman una especie de cuerpo y creo que nos sentimos bastante cómodos con esa evolución.

Cómo es eso de trabajar en familia, literalmente como hermanos.

JC. Hasta aquí todo va bien.

AC. [Risas].

JC. Hasta aquí todo va bien. No hemos acabado como los Gallagher. Al revés, nos aguantamos bastante.

AC. Es una gozada. Tenemos tantos referentes comunes, de la infancia, etcétera, hay mucho terreno común que hace muy fácil el trabajar. Al mismo tiempo, es muy fácil ser autocríticos y no andar con remilgos. Ay, como le digo qué…

JC. ¡Nada! ¡Patada en la cara y punto! [risas] Jamás hay egos resentidos o dolidos.

AC. Eso hace que no estés tan pendiente de tu trabajo, de manera que si ves que hay algo que no funciona, se derriba y punto. Muy contentos. Lo que nos interesa ahora es ampliar un poco, tener más ayuda a la hora de escribir.

JC. Necesitamos crecer.

Queréis plumas.

AC. Un poquito, un poquito. Y luego también lo que nos ha permitido ‘La Zona’ es ser productores. Lo que hablábamos también del propio modelo. Cada vez más los creadores tienen ese control en producción. Y, por cómo trabajamos, Jorge más en la trinchera y yo desde fuera, asumimos nuestros roles con mucha naturalidad. En ese sentido, muy, muy contentos.

Para ir poniéndole la puntilla, ¿qué estáis viendo ahora mismo que os mola?

JC. Yo flipé con ‘Handmaid’s tale’. Me gustó muchísimo. Y… Alberto ve muchas más que yo. Alberto es el hombre que las ha visto todas.

AC. Aprovecho cualquier resquicio [risas]. Yo… Pues nada, me gustó mucho Fincher. La verdad que ‘Mindhunter’, el approach que tiene al thriller, que no es nada clásico, prácticamente no sucede nada criminal, es de un magnetismo brutal. Además, tiene unas interpretaciones… Eso sí que te pega al sofá. Y de las últimas, ‘The deuce’ me gustó mucho, como siempre. Es increíble cómo Simon te mete en esos personajes; parece que vives allí. El tiempo que se toma para contarte cómo se vive en esas calles en Nueva York cuando está empezando la industria del porno, me fascinó.

JC. El tema de ‘Narcos’ lo veo también muy interesante, la capacidad de posibles coproducciones incluso de habla hispana que plantean ficciones globales también me parece muy interesante.

¿Star Wars qué?

AC. ¡Ay, aún no he podido ir a verla!

JC. Jo, yo es que… Si es que al final, te planteas…

AC. ¡No spoilers, por favor!

JC. …Realmente, ¿eran mejores o es que yo era muy pequeño y me flipaba mucho? No lo sé. No tengo respuesta para eso. He vuelto a ver las tres ahora, que las han vuelto a echar, y, francamente, objetivamente, creo que eran mejores. Por lo menos las dos primeras. Y la nueva… Pues, no sé, cuando eras tan fan de pequeño, la desilusión de las tres siguientes que hizo Lucas fue tan grande, que yo me dije, pa que ver más. Y esta pues, bueno, en fin.

AC. Yo… Yo me la pienso ver ahora, inmediatamente.

Tú eres más de Star Wars, Alberto, se te ve.

AC. [risas].

JC. Eh, que yo soy de Star Wars también, ¿qué pasa? Yo soy super de Star Wars. ¡Pero de las primeras!

Pero se te ve ya crecido, Jorge, sin la misma ilusión.

JC. Pues la última, de las últimas, es la que más me ha gustado, eh. Pero aun así… No aguanta dos pensadas, también te digo.

Lo último, un buen deseo para 2018.

AC. Que sea tan bueno como 2017 y…

JC. Que la gente se sume a este modelo. Que consuma este tipo de televisión, porque es lo que nos permite hacer este tipo de series. Cuando nos preguntamos: “¿Por qué no se hacen series así?”. Porque necesitamos que haya gente que nos vea y que nos siga.

AC. Y porque estamos haciendo industria. Yo creo que es una pata muy, muy importante del sector y sacar partido a un país que es un plató natural alucinante.

JC. Así que, ¿un deseo para 2018? Que se hagan más y que nos vean.

“Con las plataformas streaming, los espectadores están acostumbrados a ver series de cualquier lado”, entrevista a los hermanos Cabezudo (‘La Zona’)

Hablar con los hermanos Cabezudo es apurar un cóctel de entusiasmo en la barra de bar de la vida. Puede que su serie cuente cosas bien chungas, como una Asturias postnuclear donde tanto puede ser uno devorado por un lobo como por un caníbal, pero los hacedores de ‘La Zona’, serie televisiva con el sello de Movistar+, están lejos de responder al tópico del artista torturado.

O eso o disimulan muy bien. A ráfagas de conversación superpuestas, atropelladas, trepidantes, en las que cupo de todo, de David Fincher, a Chernóbil y Fukushima o el polémico ‘Episodio VIII’ de Star Wars, Xataka se adentró en ‘La Zona’, con el ojo en el dosímetro y de la mano de sus papás. Vivimos para contarlo.

Venga, vamos a empezar por una que probablemente no me vais a responder. ¿Es Arcan_hell, el prota del lado transmedia de ‘La Zona’, Fede?

Alberto Sánchez Cabezudo y Jorge Sánchez Cabezudo. [Risas].

JC. Eeeeeehhhh. Hombre, creo que no.

Entonces, me la habéis respondido. No lo es.

AC. Hombre, no sé. Si hacemos la segunda temporada, todavía tenemos muchos caminos que explorar. Así que está todo abierto ahí.

Se confirma con ‘La Zona’, como pasó con ‘El ministerio del tiempo’, ¿que en España ya se pueden hacer series un poquito más friquis?

AC. Yo creo que sí. Con las plataformas streaming, los espectadores están acostumbrados a ver series de cualquier lado; es un público mucho más global.

JC. Y esa es la apuesta. La apuesta de Movistar es: “Nosotros no vamos a competir en una hora determinada con otra cadena en concreto que también tiene una serie española, sino que vamos a un catálogo en el que la gente tenga que decidir entre ‘La Zona’ y ‘Mindhunters’”. Al final tenemos que dar lo mejor de nosotros porque estamos compitiendo con lo global. Esa es la apuesta, supongo que es también la apuesta de ‘El ministerio del tiempo’, y creo que es en general la apuesta de la ficción. Esto ya no hay quien lo pare.

¿Y cómo se sube uno al ring contra David Fincher?

AC Y JC. [Risas].

AC. ¿Te digo una cosa? Sin pensarlo.

JC. Exacto, exacto. No lo piensas. Tú haces lo que sabes hacer lo mejor que sabes hacerlo con todo el amor…

AC. La ilusión, la pasión…

JC. Toda la intensidad del mundo. Y ya está… Porque además, te digo, no puedes hacer otra cosa [risas].

¿Es verdad que parasteis la producción de esta serie por la tragedia de Fukushima, allá por 2011?

AC. Sí. No teníamos cerrada la serie, pero llevábamos tiempo dándole vueltas y teníamos ya una propuesta para mover por alguna cadena.

JC. También es cierto que en ese momento no estaba Movistar+.

AC. Y entonces uno de nuestros socios, Koldo, nos llama y nos dice: “Oye, ¿habéis visto lo que están echando en la tele?”. Cuando vimos toda la tragedia, las víctimas, nos dio muchísimo pudor. Era un proyecto que tenía que guardarse en un cajón. Si lo retomamos fue porque, años después, al bajar el ruido mediático y no tener información, nos pusimos a bucear y nos interesó que dos, tres años después de Fukushima había muchas cosas que seguían siendo un misterio. Y esto fue el germen de toda la trama de ‘La Zona’.

“Nos pusimos a bucear y nos interesó que dos, tres años después de Fukushima había muchas cosas que seguían siendo un misterio. Y esto fue el germen de toda la trama de ‘La Zona'”
Hablemos un poco a nivel estético. Uno de los temas que tocáis es la naturaleza contaminada, indómita y salvaje pero a la vez deformada. ¿Las imágenes de Fukushima o Chernóbil os influyeron en algo para cómo transformasteis Asturias?

JC. Total. Totalmente.

AC. Gran parte del trabajo de guion no fue la trama y los personajes, fue el previo de documentación muy amplio. El proyecto arrancó antes de Fukushima. Habíamos devorado documentales en torno a Chernóbil, pero después de lo sucedido en Fukushima, sobre todo lo relacionado con la central y las imágenes de lo contemporáneo abandonado nos influyó muchísimo.

¿Viajasteis a la zona cero de alguno de los dos desastres?

AC. No. Lo estuvimos hablando ayer. ¡Somos muy caguetas!

AC y JC. [Risas].

JC. Somos muy como Verne, por decirlo de alguna manera. Somos viajeros de salón. Nos documentamos mucho y no entendemos cómo se podía hacer nada en el mundo sin Internet antes.

AC. Ayer estuvimos con Raquel Montón de Greenpeace, que nos ayudó un montón con la documentación de Fukushima, y le preguntamos. Oye…

JC. …para viajar…

AC. …tú cómo lo ves?

JC y AC. [Risas].

¿Y cómo lo veía?

AC. Igual nos animamos, igual nos animamos.

JC. Vamos a intentarlo. Es verdad que nosotros hemos visitado centrales nucleares pero sin decir quiénes somos ni lo que íbamos a hacer. Visitas guiadas, que hay muchas. A partir de ahora, pues no lo sé… No somos los mejores amigos del lobby nuclear, también te digo. Pero bueno, sí nos interesa abundar en todo eso y para una segunda temporada estamos recabando información. Hay temas, como lo de la carcasa de plomo, que están salidos directamente de allí, de Fukushima.

Supongo que le estáis pidiendo la segunda temporada a los Reyes y Papa Noel a la vez.

JC y AC. [Risas].

¿Vais a mantener esta especie de caja de bombones de géneros, que si un pelín de policiaco, que si algo de fantástico, que si mucho de costumbrismo, en la segunda? Sobre todo esa naturaleza modificada, mutante, y los protagonistas moviéndose por ella con trajes hazmat.

JC. Sí.

AC. Sí, sí. Yo creo que todo ese universo es un poco la seña. ‘La Zona’ necesita la zona contaminada, la naturaleza contaminada. La parte visual es una parte poderosa de la serie.

JC. Además, creo que los que nos han seguido una temporada ya nos han cogido el punto. No jugamos con el fantástico de esa manera, pero si jugamos con todo lo que roza los géneros yendo siempre a un punto hiperrealista de las cosas. El capítulo siete nos define mucho y retoma un poco la línea que teníamos en ‘Crematorio’.

Pero todo lo que viene antes del siete es verdad que toca muchos géneros que nos apasionan y en los que nunca acabamos de entrar del todo, como el fantástico. Pero siempre hay algo de misterio, elementos de lo no comprensible, que lo no comprensible no tiene por qué ser fantástico, pero sí es inquietante. Volveremos a tratar estos géneros y los volveremos a tratar un poco de la misma manera. Bueno, a ver dónde acabamos porque también te digo que nos dejamos llevar bastante por la escritura.

A la hora de visualizar a los personajes, ¿cuáles teníais en la cabeza con rostro y voz y cuáles fueron sorpresas de casting?

AC. Eduard estuvo muy desde el principio en nuestra imagen como Héctor.

JC. A partir del cuatro ya escribíamos para él, por decirlo así, porque se incorporó cuando ya llevábamos cuatro capítulos escritos.

AC. Y en general, la verdad, es que la carta de reyes magos de actores que hicimos…

JC. ¡Toda, toda!

AC. Nos lo trajeron todo. Zahera, yo creo que la ha dado…

JC. Un plus.

AC. Una vida a ese personaje que nos ha sorprendido. Pero bueno, todos. Manolo Solo también. Álvaro Cervantes. Todos han sabido apoderarse de sus personajes y darles un plus.

JC. Por ejemplo, Álvaro Cervantes [Martín] estaba pensado para alguien un poquito mayor y sin embargo Álvaro tiene una mirada muy, muy potente. Le ha dado un peso al personaje que nos ha venido muy bien.

 

Hay una cosa clave en lo que venimos hablando. El cambio de modelo de producción. Me interesa mucho desde el punto de vista del creador qué aporta este modelo. En negativo me quedó claro, que os subís al ring con David Fincher.

AC y JC. [Risas].

Pero, ¿en positivo?

JC. Es que lo cambia todo. La nuestra ha sido un poco el modelo híbrido. Se ha emitido capítulo a capítulo semanalmente y ahora tiene una especie de segunda vida para poder verla del tirón. La clave es que esto está un poco haciéndose. En nuestro caso, ha sido una exploración de fronteras brutal. Hemos llevado todo a los límites que nos dejaron. Ha sido un poco como: “¿Nos dejáis hacer? Pues vamos a hacer”. Es que no sé, 160 localizaciones, nos hemos arriesgado muchísimo a narrar sin diálogo, es una serie que cuenta muchísimo visualmente y que procura explicar poco.

“Ha sido una exploración de fronteras brutal. Hemos llevado todo a los límites que nos dejaron. Ha sido un poco como: ‘¿Nos dejáis hacer? Pues vamos a hacer’ ”
AC. Y luego, tanto el tamaño como el poder tener el guion acabado antes de rodar, nos permitían orientar la producción más con un esquema de cine. Poder rodar por localizaciones, no por capítulos, con lo cual hemos podido optimizar recursos para sacar el máximo de lo que teníamos.

JC. Y además hacerlo con dos unidades. Eso es otra cosa que hay que mencionar, y nos gusta mencionarlo siempre, que hay una segunda unidad, dirigida por Gonzalo López-Gallego, que se rueda un 40% de la serie.

Eso os permite ser más flexibles.

JC. ¡Claro!

AC. Jorge filma el 60% en rodaje, Gonzalo lleva la segunda unidad y yo desde fuera puedo mantener un poco la continuidad y controlar la producción. Así podemos controlar creativamente todo el proceso.

JC. Además, que un director como Gonzalo acepte llevar una especie de segunda unidad, porque es mucho más que una segunda unidad, nos permitió optimizar el presupuesto.

Me sorprendió verlo firmar como director de la segunda unidad. Es alguien que ha trabajado en Hollywood y con una larga trayectoria. Debía de creer mucho en el proyecto para apoyaros hasta ese punto.

JC. Sí, sí. Por eso siempre lo queremos mencionar porque ha sido de una generosidad enorme. Lo llamamos segunda unidad porque había que llamarlo de alguna manera. De hecho, nos repartimos las tramas…

AC. Y firma dos capítulos con Jorge.

JC. Firma dos capítulos conmigo, entre ellos el siete, que creo que es el mejor de la serie. Fue tremendamente generoso porque tuvo que asumir un peso muy grande. Y hacer cosas muy complicadas, como bajar con las canoas por el río, rodando en la central. Todo el interior del siete es suyo.

AC. Trabajar con él fue fantástico. Una compenetración y una sensibilidad… Estamos encantados.

En otros campos lleva pasando un tiempo, como en los videojuegos. Pero ahora, por primera vez, y de esto Netflix es probablemente el epítome, se puede competir en ficción audiovisual con Hollywood desde cualquier lugar del mundo. Consejos o avisos para navegantes en la ficción española para no quedarnos atrás en esta partida, porque ahora se es showrunner para el mundo.

JC. Uy, nosotros consejos todavía.

AC. [Risas].

JC. No estamos para darlos, ¿eh?

AC. Lo que sí está pasando es que desde hace tiempo hay una ficción europea, diría yo, que ha salido a contar sus historias. Y dentro de eso creo que el consejo es contar nuestras historias. Creo que desde hace diez años el nivel técnico está subiendo enormemente, desde las producciones españolas para cadenas generalistas.

El sector de pago había estado un poco parado, hasta que ha llegado Movistar para agitarlo justo cuando coincide con el desembarco de otras grandes plataformas como Netflix o HBO. Pero yo creo que en Europa, en los países nórdicos o en Italia, en la que tenemos series como ‘Gomorra’ o ‘1992’, poco a poco estamos perdiendo estos complejos. Creo que nosotros, España, somos de los últimos que nos sumamos a este carro. Pero, al mismo tiempo, nuestras series son de las que más se venden fuera. Bambú está vendiendo internacionalmente como el que más. Así que bueno, a salir a jugar.

JC. Abundando un poco en lo que dice Alberto, lo que es muy importante ver es que el recorrido que ha hecho la ficción española en lineal es increíble en 10 años. Yo he trabajado muchos años en Bambú y vinieron los italianos a comprar el formato de ‘Gran Hotel’. Visitaron el rodaje y salieron alucinados. “¿Hacéis esto con este dinero?”. Y nosotros: “Sí. Lo hacemos”. No se entiende ‘Crematorio’ o ‘La Zona’ sin esa ficción. No es que sean antagonistas, que lo uno venga a imponerse a lo otro. La una es consecuencia de la otra. Otra anécdota, hablando con gente del sector de Francia. “¿Cómo podéis hacer el doble de series que nosotros con la mitad de público”. Repito, lo uno es consecuencia de lo otro.

En España, y esto lo veo en la comunidad startup, en investigación científica, en grandes empresas y en el sector cultural, la gente se busca la vida.

JC. ¡Total! [Risas].

AC. Somos muy espabilaos. Sacamos mucho petróleo.

JC. Sacamos petróleo de dónde no lo hay. Lo mismo nos decía un jefe de eléctricos. Venía el director de foto americano y le decía: “Yo quiero esto, esto y esto”. Y le decía nuestro jefe: “Te hago lo mismo con la mitad”. Se lo hizo y el americano dijo: “Hostia, pues es verdad”. Ponía la mitad de focos y le salía lo mismo. Tenemos muy buena capacidad para eso. A veces nos falta la otra parte, el rigor. Pero también te digo que combinando las dos cosas, porque hay gente muy rigurosa y con mucho nivel, conseguimos cosas que no se consiguen fuera.

Nos lo han vuelto a decir en Cannes, a tenor de Movistar+. Los alemanes estaban flipados que una plataforma hubiera nacido en dos años. No daban crédito; creían que era imposible y que a ellos les hubiera llevado, al menos, tres veces más. Así que creo que hay que sacar pecho. Los españoles estamos siempre con el látigo para machacarnos a nosotros mismos, pero, joer, también hacemos cosas bien.

Vosotros os lo jugasteis en todos los frentes. Por ejemplo, en el transmedia. Y os lo quiero preguntar buscando una respuesta sincera. ¿Hasta qué punto compensa meterse una panzada a priori de 310 minutos de contenido adicional y paralelo, en múltiples formatos, como es ‘La Otra Zona’, antes de saber si hay una comunidad de fans que lo justifique?

JC. La verdad es que nosotros nos quedamos un poco fuera de eso porque es imposible que llegáramos a todo. Alberto y yo llevábamos desde la hoja en blanco hasta la última decisión de sonido. Esto ha sido la apuesta que ha hecho Movistar, para estar a la última en todo, y digamos que para nosotros no supuso un esfuerzo.

AC. Hombre, nosotros intentamos estar pendientes. Pero había un equipo que se encargaba de ello y nosotros hacíamos más de coachs. Les dábamos información. Pero necesitábamos un equipo independiente y con la capacidad creativa para desarrollarlo. Siempre un poco con nosotros como guía pero no podíamos asumir eso. Entre otras cosas, porque Movistar quería apostar por explorar las fronteras de eso. Es lo que dices tú. ¿Hace falta tener la comunidad antes? Bueno, creo que eso es lo que va a poder comprobar Movistar y nosotros. Quedan muchas series por aterrizar. La apuesta es un poco a medio plazo. Y es muy de agradecer el sentirse respaldado a todos los niveles.

¿Pensáis tomar algunas cosillas del lado transmedia?

AC. Nosotros estamos en contacto con ellos. Por ejemplo, en ‘Cicatrices’ habían conseguido hablar con gente de Chernóbil. Hay una relación con ello que permite una permeabilidad de información de los equipos y eso suma a favor de la serie.

¿Pero llegar al punto de coger algunos personajes, tramas o temas del transmedia y sumarlos a la serie principal?

AC. No dejamos de plantearnos nada [risas]. Nos gusta rebañar todo. Nos encanta dejar los huesos muy limpios. Primero tenemos que hablar con la cadena, pero una vez abramos la caja de Pandora, partiremos de la documentación real en primer lugar y luego recoger un poco de todo, tanto de lo que se ha explorado desde el lado transmedia, como de temas que sabemos que queremos tratar y plantear un poco el puzle.

JC. Nosotros tenemos un universo que ya está planteado y que creo que debemos aprovechar para acelerar la marcha y tirar palante, vamos.

Desde la perspectiva del tiempo, ¿cómo veis ‘Crematorio’?

AC. Yo no la he vuelto a ver [risas]. Pero bien, muy orgullosos. Yo creo que es una serie que ha ganado con el tiempo. En su momento, cuando salió con Canal+ no era una serie de máxima audiencia. Tuvo muy buenas críticas, eso sí. Con el tiempo, ha ido asentándose…

JC. Incluso ‘La Zona’ ha ayudado. Se está revisionando gracias a ella. También te digo que el momento en el que salió ‘Crematorio’ es tan diferente al actual… ‘Crematorio’ no salía a competir con Fincher; venía desde otro sitio. Pero estamos orgullusísimos de ella, por supuesto.

AC. De alguna manera creo que forma un cuerpo un poco por ‘La Zona’. Incluso con la peli que hizo Jorge, ‘La noche de los girasoles’, que tocaba también ese mundo rural. Yo creo que esas tres forman una especie de cuerpo y creo que nos sentimos bastante cómodos con esa evolución.

Cómo es eso de trabajar en familia, literalmente como hermanos.

JC. Hasta aquí todo va bien.

AC. [Risas].

JC. Hasta aquí todo va bien. No hemos acabado como los Gallagher. Al revés, nos aguantamos bastante.

AC. Es una gozada. Tenemos tantos referentes comunes, de la infancia, etcétera, hay mucho terreno común que hace muy fácil el trabajar. Al mismo tiempo, es muy fácil ser autocríticos y no andar con remilgos. Ay, como le digo qué…

JC. ¡Nada! ¡Patada en la cara y punto! [risas] Jamás hay egos resentidos o dolidos.

AC. Eso hace que no estés tan pendiente de tu trabajo, de manera que si ves que hay algo que no funciona, se derriba y punto. Muy contentos. Lo que nos interesa ahora es ampliar un poco, tener más ayuda a la hora de escribir.

JC. Necesitamos crecer.

Queréis plumas.

AC. Un poquito, un poquito. Y luego también lo que nos ha permitido ‘La Zona’ es ser productores. Lo que hablábamos también del propio modelo. Cada vez más los creadores tienen ese control en producción. Y, por cómo trabajamos, Jorge más en la trinchera y yo desde fuera, asumimos nuestros roles con mucha naturalidad. En ese sentido, muy, muy contentos.

Para ir poniéndole la puntilla, ¿qué estáis viendo ahora mismo que os mola?

JC. Yo flipé con ‘Handmaid’s tale’. Me gustó muchísimo. Y… Alberto ve muchas más que yo. Alberto es el hombre que las ha visto todas.

AC. Aprovecho cualquier resquicio [risas]. Yo… Pues nada, me gustó mucho Fincher. La verdad que ‘Mindhunter’, el approach que tiene al thriller, que no es nada clásico, prácticamente no sucede nada criminal, es de un magnetismo brutal. Además, tiene unas interpretaciones… Eso sí que te pega al sofá. Y de las últimas, ‘The deuce’ me gustó mucho, como siempre. Es increíble cómo Simon te mete en esos personajes; parece que vives allí. El tiempo que se toma para contarte cómo se vive en esas calles en Nueva York cuando está empezando la industria del porno, me fascinó.

JC. El tema de ‘Narcos’ lo veo también muy interesante, la capacidad de posibles coproducciones incluso de habla hispana que plantean ficciones globales también me parece muy interesante.

¿Star Wars qué?

AC. ¡Ay, aún no he podido ir a verla!

JC. Jo, yo es que… Si es que al final, te planteas…

AC. ¡No spoilers, por favor!

JC. …Realmente, ¿eran mejores o es que yo era muy pequeño y me flipaba mucho? No lo sé. No tengo respuesta para eso. He vuelto a ver las tres ahora, que las han vuelto a echar, y, francamente, objetivamente, creo que eran mejores. Por lo menos las dos primeras. Y la nueva… Pues, no sé, cuando eras tan fan de pequeño, la desilusión de las tres siguientes que hizo Lucas fue tan grande, que yo me dije, pa que ver más. Y esta pues, bueno, en fin.

AC. Yo… Yo me la pienso ver ahora, inmediatamente.

Tú eres más de Star Wars, Alberto, se te ve.

AC. [risas].

JC. Eh, que yo soy de Star Wars también, ¿qué pasa? Yo soy super de Star Wars. ¡Pero de las primeras!

Pero se te ve ya crecido, Jorge, sin la misma ilusión.

JC. Pues la última, de las últimas, es la que más me ha gustado, eh. Pero aun así… No aguanta dos pensadas, también te digo.

Lo último, un buen deseo para 2018.

AC. Que sea tan bueno como 2017 y…

JC. Que la gente se sume a este modelo. Que consuma este tipo de televisión, porque es lo que nos permite hacer este tipo de series. Cuando nos preguntamos: “¿Por qué no se hacen series así?”. Porque necesitamos que haya gente que nos vea y que nos siga.

AC. Y porque estamos haciendo industria. Yo creo que es una pata muy, muy importante del sector y sacar partido a un país que es un plató natural alucinante.

JC. Así que, ¿un deseo para 2018? Que se hagan más y que nos vean.

 

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